(February 02, 2012 01:58:14 PM)Chloe Wrote:  What? You're still making a salad in both versions of the past in that example.

I see it as a case of obtaining a different outcome requires a different process. Of course you\'re the one actually changing things yourself, but isn\'t that creating a new paradox? So once you change the future then leave for another time, the timeline needs to adjust itself so as to keep that change in the future but without your interference. (Yes I know it still doesn\'t makes sense, but I dunno who else you can think about it.)

@Moogle XIII\'s music wasn\'t so bad, XIII-2 isn\'t terrible either, just a bit different. (Like Squares going through a phase or something?)

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(February 03, 2012 11:37:11 AM)Arvis Wrote:  How did X-2 fail horribly?

Please allow to me to enlighten you, okay?

First of all, the ending scene in FFX where Tidus jumps off the Celsius and joins Braska, Auron and gives Jecht a hi-five literally made my jaw drop. I was like, "So, Tidus is gone now? He vanished since he is just a dream of the fayth?" Well, maybe he fell in the sea in Besaid Island after jumping. And after playing FFX-2, one of the ending scene was, well, he was hibernating in the shore of Besaid Island. The ending of FFX was the first time that I didn't really like in the FF series. You knew after beating the game that there was a sequel coming out. FFX just left too many theories and made us clamor for a sequel even though there was no sequels created yet for an FF game that time.

In FFX-2, there's this thing called percentage completion. Now, I had a problem with this because I din't get a hundred percent completion. And the cause of it is because I didn't "rest". As we all know, the cabin offers the option to "rest." What does even "rest" do? Well, if you choose to "rest", you are just forced to wait while Yuna rolls over, sits up, then stands after waking up. But no, there are apparently scenes aboard the airship in the final chapter which can only be seen if you chose to "rest" at least once during each chapter. But when you are playing, you would think that "rest" really serves no purpose. No one in this world would even think it was necessary to "rest" just to unlock scenes in the game. I don't know what scenes they are and I never bothered to find out but I am sure they add nothing to the story. However, without seeing these scenes, your completion percentage, which is tallied cannot reach 100%. In short, despite the 70+ hours I've put into this game, watching YuRiPa change dresses endlessly, I cannot get a 100% completion because I didn't do something that was useless. What do you need a "rest" for? The game's save points refill your HP/MP and cure all status ailments, and there is one on the airship, so it's not as if you ever need an inn.

Second, I was excited that FFX-2 might be good with the inclusion of the dress sphere which is similar to Final Fantasy Tactics/Advance's job class system. But SEnix didn't realize that what made the job class system so popular was its ability to combine job classes. You can make each character uniquely yours. In Tactics or Tactics Advance, you could have, for example, a Black Mage with Thief, or Archer or Paladin techniques. Or a Fighter that can cast white or black magic spells. How cool is that? But in FFX-2 there is no customization at all. Every Thief is the same as every other Thief. Every Monk is the same as every other Monk. You also didn't have to worry about equipping. Just the accessories. Your stats change whenever you change jobs so there's not even any strategy to levelling with the right dress sphere. Pick one dress sphere and master all skills then go to the next one.

And this is why FFX-2 sucks. But I don't hate it. I never used that word.

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(February 03, 2012 09:01:50 PM)B Boy Rock Wrote:  I see it as a case of obtaining a different outcome requires a different process. Of course you\'re the one actually changing things yourself, but isn\'t that creating a new paradox? So once you change the future then leave for another time, the timeline needs to adjust itself so as to keep that change in the future but without your interference. (Yes I know it still doesn\'t makes sense, but I dunno who else you can think about it.)

I understand what you're getting at, but it's whatever intervention you make in the present that changes the future. To go back to the salad thing, you can go and take away all the ingredients, which will then leave you with no other option than to have a burger, but the only thing you're changing is your current (whichever part of the timeline you've entered) present and future. Removing the ingredients at 5pm will not change whatever you were doing at 4pm.

Sorry this is going off topic into temporal theory... XD

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(February 02, 2012 01:58:14 PM)Chloe Wrote:  What? You're still making a salad in both versions of the past in that example.

Not exactly. In XIII-2 a paradox occurs in a "that's just the way it is" sort of fashion (at least that's what I've been led to believe). So when arriving at a destination in time at some point in the future, these paradoxes would have arrived without warning and changed the events leading up to the desired conclusion they worked towards before the paradox occurred. So in a sense they ARE still making the salad, but that was the whole point of destroying the paradox. They didn't want a burger, they wanted a salad.

I'm going to go lye down. My brain hurts. >_>.

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So basically, they're taking liberty with logics?

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(February 02, 2012 01:58:14 PM)Chloe Wrote:  What? You're still making a salad in both versions of the past in that example.

exactly, but the timeline changed twice, the moment the paradox happened the salad disapeared, then someone in the future destroyed the paradox and everything returned to normal, but everything went back to normal because someone in the future destoyed the paradox and brought back the salad, therefore changing the future to change the past.

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call me easy to please but i love everything about this game. i feel like a free-range gamer, i haven\'t roamed so much since the ps 1s titles. but this is better, as you can control how you roam. i\'ve found quite a few gates that take me away from the main plot, and am just slowly getting round to explore them. i can\'t see a fault in this game.

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I will never be a memory . . .

@Roland:

Minor quibbles.
Especially regarding the story. Yes, they could have added a wee-bit more customization to the Jobs themselves, but being able to change classes mid battle kind of nullifies that, doesn\'t it? Since there are different, unique \"Garment Grids,\" you can conceivably have a Black Mage with Thief AND Alchemist AND Warrior Skills. Just equip your character with the right Garment Grid with the bonuses you want and equip them with the Jobs you want to customize them with. Boom: you have access to all those Job skills in battle. Allowing you to have access without switching would be sort of pointless and/or negate the benefit of job switching mid-battle.

So honestly, your \"reasons why X-2 sucks\" aren\'t really even objectively valid. \"I didn\'t like the game\" would be a more valid reason to say it sucked.

I\'m assuming you didn\'t play the game long enough to find out that there are different kinds of Garment Grids you can equip. That\'s ok, a lot of haters didn\'t.

....and this is officially off-topic, isn\'t it?

-Arvis

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(February 06, 2012 05:08:39 PM)Arvis Wrote:  @Roland:

Minor quibbles.
Especially regarding the story. Yes, they could have added a wee-bit more customization to the Jobs themselves, but being able to change classes mid battle kind of nullifies that, doesn\'t it? Since there are different, unique \"Garment Grids,\" you can conceivably have a Black Mage with Thief AND Alchemist AND Warrior Skills. Just equip your character with the right Garment Grid with the bonuses you want and equip them with the Jobs you want to customize them with. Boom: you have access to all those Job skills in battle. Allowing you to have access without switching would be sort of pointless and/or negate the benefit of job switching mid-battle.

So honestly, your \"reasons why X-2 sucks\" aren\'t really even objectively valid. \"I didn\'t like the game\" would be a more valid reason to say it sucked.

I\'m assuming you didn\'t play the game long enough to find out that there are different kinds of Garment Grids you can equip. That\'s ok, a lot of haters didn\'t.

....and this is officially off-topic, isn\'t it?

-Arvis

For the record, I didn't say that I hated it. And I didn't join here to make arguments with someone else. You asked me a question and I answered it. So why bother asking a question if you don't wanna hear the answer? And this is why I hate to explain things to obsessed fanboys. They think they're always right.

But that's off-topic now, no?

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GUYS...Calm down. Please keep the discussion friendly. We don't need any mean-spirited comments.

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