(May 06, 2012 04:14:58 PM)Youjinbou Wrote:  Those weren\'t news, juts rumors.

XII worked absolutely perfectly, in fact they should have just continued with that format. Fighting enemies on the battlefield without annoying screen changes. And with XIII, where you do nothing but fight every 5 seconds for the entire game, this gets annoying REALLY fast. They might as well just kept random encounters.
Exploring the world couldn\'t be any further removed from the XIIIs concept.The only reason XIIIs had any success at all is just the name recognition and the fact that it\'s on PS3 now. Thus they made XIII-2, to cash on the still lingering success of \"HEY, FINAL FANTASY ON PS3, I\'LL BUY NO MATTER WHAT\".

What they need to do is stay away from MMO and jumping the shark with battle system as far away as possible, and focus on what made all previous, barely changing, entries so great. Story and characters.

Unfortunately for you're sake, the annoying screen changes has been a part of Final Fantasy's successful formula for 25 years. And unavoidable fights for 23 years. Not saying you're wrong in your thinking, but keep in mind that others probably like it and have supported the IP for it's lifetime.

I agree that XII was an amazing combat system, it was my favorite. Still holding to ATB and utilizing Gambits, while still holding a menu system for on-the-fly. It was amazing. FF13 just took the gambits and ran with it. I stil love FF13/FF13-2 from combat perspective, but 95% of the time it was just hitting autobattle.

To be honest, unless some big breakthrough happens with the graphics development crowd, I don't see us ever getting another open world FF similar to FF12. It's just not easily done with HD graphics. Sure some companies 'seem' to pull it off using texture duplication and massive amounts of bugs, but it's a developing gamble and takes too much cost/time/risk. I think they are experiencing that with FFV13 as it seems open world'ish.

Lastly, I'm someone that bought FF13-2, and it wasn't because "I'll buy it no matter what!" Square/Enix has been providing 25 years of amazing games from their IP. Sure they don't always make choices that come out to my 100% liking, but I can honestly say that every game I buy from them, I get my money's worth (I use the movie ticket per hour formula lol). While FF13 did have lackluster characters and linear pathing, the visuals/music/overallplot/world was amazing. Sure, I had my doubts for FF13-2, but it still provided me with plenty of entertainment. Which is alot more than I can say with many other IPs in the gaming marketplace these days. Not meaning this to attack you, but just giving my take on your statement.

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Given kitase's comments about FFXV possibly being an action RPG and comments from squareenix (I forget from who made them) that they believe tha action RPGs are the current trend in video games and what most people want, I think versus XIII is going to be a big test XV. If versus is received well by critics and fans and seen as return to form we'll probably see XV be an evolution of that system. Given that we've been told that versus will have a world map, exploration, a controllable airship and other df staples that have been missing for a while, I think it's very likely that versus will be seen as a return to form.

I think XV might be announced before versus is released and we might see a nice FMV of the world and main character when it is announced but I don't think we'll see game play or significant details until after versus is released. I think versus will have a big effect on the future of the franchise.

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(May 12, 2012 10:13:48 AM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  Given kitase's comments about FFXV possibly being an action RPG and comments from squareenix (I forget from who made them) that they believe tha action RPGs are the current trend in video games and what most people want, I think versus XIII is going to be a big test XV. If versus is received well by critics and fans and seen as return to form we'll probably see XV be an evolution of that system. Given that we've been told that versus will have a world map, exploration, a controllable airship and other df staples that have been missing for a while, I think it's very likely that versus will be seen as a return to form.

I think XV might be announced before versus is released and we might see a nice FMV of the world and main character when it is announced but I don't think we'll see game play or significant details until after versus is released. I think versus will have a big effect on the future of the franchise.

While at face value, I agree with your theory. However there's a lot more at play then that I believe. Like for instance, they don't have to do one thing or another. They are just as capable of making an ActionRPG spinoff along side their main franchise with ATB.

There's no doubt that if Versus13 makes huge bank, it will change their business model. However they can't ignore the nearly 7 million copies FF13 sold (wait time and hype or not). Action RPGs have been successful for a long time. However I believe they know they have a niche, and while they've slowly changed the FF model, it's always had the original flavor somewhere in each build.

It's hard to ignore the criticism, the internets are full of it. Shoot, I get caught up in it sometimes. But SquareEnix isn't ignoring FF13s 7million and even FF13-2s over 2 million sold.

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(May 14, 2012 12:03:50 PM)Zeruel Wrote:  While at face value, I agree with your theory. However there's a lot more at play then that I believe. Like for instance, they don't have to do one thing or another. They are just as capable of making an ActionRPG spinoff along side their main franchise with ATB.

There's no doubt that if Versus13 makes huge bank, it will change their business model. However they can't ignore the nearly 7 million copies FF13 sold (wait time and hype or not). Action RPGs have been successful for a long time. However I believe they know they have a niche, and while they've slowly changed the FF model, it's always had the original flavor somewhere in each build.

It's hard to ignore the criticism, the internets are full of it. Shoot, I get caught up in it sometimes. But SquareEnix isn't ignoring FF13s 7million and even FF13-2s over 2 million sold.

I'm just going by what Kitase said. I'm not saying they will, should, could, shouldn't, or won't make the main series an action RPG, by Kitase said thats the trend they are seeing in the global market and XV could very well be an action RPG. http://gematsu.com/2011/11/kitase-final-...action-rpg

Final Fantasy XIII sold well, but its sequel did not (5 million people said "I don't need more of that"), though it was very profitable from them, as Square reported profits of 6 billion yen in March 2012 (their year end). They credited Deus Ex and Final Fantasy XIII-2 for much of that. And the reception of both games were mixed at best. If you have a company that sees (rights or wrongly) action RPG's as the trend the genera/industry is going and what players want, whos last 2 turn based games were met with mixed reactions......if they release an action RPG that good reviews, good sales numbers and a good reaction from the fans.....why wouldn't they keep doing what works for them?

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(May 14, 2012 07:49:12 PM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  I'm just going by what Kitase said. I'm not saying they will, should, could, shouldn't, or won't make the main series an action RPG, by Kitase said thats the trend they are seeing in the global market and XV could very well be an action RPG. http://gematsu.com/2011/11/kitase-final-...action-rpg

Final Fantasy XIII sold well, but its sequel did not (5 million people said "I don't need more of that"), though it was very profitable from them, as Square reported profits of 6 billion yen in March 2012 (their year end). They credited Deus Ex and Final Fantasy XIII-2 for much of that. And the reception of both games were mixed at best. If you have a company that sees (rights or wrongly) action RPG's as the trend the genera/industry is going and what players want, whos last 2 turn based games were met with mixed reactions......if they release an action RPG that good reviews, good sales numbers and a good reaction from the fans.....why wouldn't they keep doing what works for them?

Ah, kind of weird they post that his comments mean FFXV may be a ActionRPG, when all they translated is that the next Final Fantasy may be an ActionRPG. Which could be a offshoot like Versus13. Doesn't really have to be the next number title. Oh well, splitting hairs.

Also, 5Million didn't say "I don't need more of that." I feel most people I knew said, "I don't like the changes they are making" and "I don't want another X-2" more than that they were displeased with FF13. But that's just my perspective Thanks for the great input Sluggo.

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Given what we've been told of Versus XIII I think it could have a big effect on XV and the series moving forward, beyond the battle system.

Nomura has said that Versus XIII will have a world map - http://www.finalfantasy.net/versus/final...ap-engine/ - a feature which was a staple of the series for 9 games but hasn't been included in the last 3 single player enteries. X, XII, XIII (X-2 and XIII-2 for that matter) had straight paths throughout the whole game (some were wider then others or a couple branching paths but still just a path to follow). He has also said the game will feature a controlable Airship - http://www.siliconera.com/2010/03/17/fin...-airships/ - that you can fly over the world map. Another staple for 9 games that we didn't see/get in X, X-2, XII, XII or XIII-2. I believe he said there will be other vehciles in the game as well. If Final Fantasy Versus XIII is seen by fans and critics as a "return to form" for the series and recieved with praise I wouldn't be surprised to see elements like these return to the series in XV and moving forward.

Also, if Versus does come out to praise and is seen as a return to form I think we might finally see Nomura given control of a numbered entry in the Final Fantasy series. With the exception of IX and XII, hes worked on every Final Fantasy game from IV to XIII-2. Hes created games, directed them, produced them, and written them. But he has never been given that level of control over a proper Final Fantasy game. But if he makes the a well recieved game, if its seen as a return to form, if they decide that several of the elements (battle system, world map, airship etc...) that he put in are things fans want and want to include in future games, kinda makes sense to let him make the game.

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(May 14, 2012 08:19:24 PM)Zeruel Wrote:  Ah, kind of weird they post that his comments mean FFXV may be a ActionRPG, when all they translated is that the next Final Fantasy may be an ActionRPG. Which could be a offshoot like Versus13. Doesn't really have to be the next number title. Oh well, splitting hairs.

Also, 5Million didn't say "I don't need more of that." I feel most people I knew said, "I don't like the changes they are making" and "I don't want another X-2" more than that they were displeased with FF13. But that's just my perspective Thanks for the great input Sluggo.

Or he could be saying "Final Fantasy XV could be an actino RPG". Second guessing what hes saying just to make to fit your opinion or argument.....anyone can do that with anything. The artical frames the question as pertaining to XV, so why assume hes talking about an off-shoot?

"I don;'t like the changes they are making" is the same as "I don't need more of that". And you can't really argue that Final Fantasy XIII was a game that met with mixed reactions from critics and fans. I liked the game personally, by it was not universally praised. Its a series that always changes from game to game, entry to entry. When IV came out they scrapped the turn based battle system and the ATB became the standard for the series until IX, and came back in XII. They saw that they had something that worked, that people liked and wanted more of it, so they kept doing it. If Versus is well recieved well, why wouldn't it be the ATB situation again?

Just to compare, Final Fantasy X sold 6.6 million copies (from the numbers I've seen/found). X-2 sold about 3 million. So roughly half. Just under 30% of the people who bought XIII bought XIII-2.

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(May 14, 2012 08:50:28 PM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  Or he could be saying "Final Fantasy XV could be an actino RPG". Second guessing what hes saying just to make to fit your opinion or argument.....anyone can do that with anything. The artical frames the question as pertaining to XV, so why assume hes talking about an off-shoot?

Think you're taking my comments a bit too prickly, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't see anything in the article about the question pertaining XV, so I made a comment based on the actual quotes and references to XV.

(May 14, 2012 08:50:28 PM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  "I don;'t like the changes they are making" is the same as "I don't need more of that".

Um, no not really. "I don't like the changes they are making," is in reference to someone who liked FF13 and didn't like seeing that FF13-2 was changing everything up like realtime rendered cutscenes, open world, less story, has pets (for example). "I don't need more of that," means someone see something in FF13-2 that they hated in FF13 or they hated 13 so much they figured 13-2 will be same thing they hated. So they are basically nothing alike.

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(May 14, 2012 09:49:41 PM)Zeruel Wrote:  Think you're taking my comments a bit too prickly, please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't see anything in the article about the question pertaining XV, so I made a comment based on the actual quotes and references to XV.

Um, no not really. "I don't like the changes they are making," is in reference to someone who liked FF13 and didn't like seeing that FF13-2 was changing everything up like realtime rendered cutscenes, open world, less story, has pets (for example). "I don't need more of that," means someone see something in FF13-2 that they hated in FF13 or they hated 13 so much they figured 13-2 will be same thing they hated. So they are basically nothing alike.

I'm not trying to be prickly however I think when you have an artical about Final Fantasy XV, the question in phrased about XV saying "he might be talking about something else" is trying to change what hes saying to fit your own opinion, unless you think Edge is trying to miss represent what Kitase was saying. There is nothing in any of the articals quoting those comments from Kitase that would indicate he is talking about anything other then Final Fantasy XV.

Most of those chances in XIII-2 are what what most fans wanted to see put back in.

And you can't argue that XIII was met with mixed opinions from critics and fans. It was. It just the way it is. Its the lowest rated(critically) Final Fantasy game since websites and magazines started reviewing and rating games. Look at any FF or gaming message board and you'll see how many fans didn't like it or had mixed feelings. Even the FF Union podcast had an episode not long ago about where or not the series had lost its shine.

You have one of the producers of the series saying Action RPG's is the trend the industry is going and you can't ignore that. The last 2-3 turn based releases have gotten mixed reviews, the next release is/should be an action RPG, and its a company and series that will change the status quo....... As I said, not much different then when they introduced the ATB system with IV.

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(May 14, 2012 10:33:09 PM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  I'm not trying to be prickly however I think when you have an artical about Final Fantasy XV, the question in phrased about XV saying "he might be talking about something else" is trying to change what hes saying to fit your own opinion, unless you think Edge is trying to miss represent what Kitase was saying. There is nothing in any of the articals quoting those comments from Kitase that would indicate he is talking about anything other then Final Fantasy XV.

Wasn't my intention to force the article to fit my opinion, don't get me wrong there. Just the way the article reads doesn't claim they asked about FFXV. That's what confused the issue. I'm going to leave it at that and drop it to avoid beating a dead horse here.

(May 14, 2012 10:33:09 PM)Sluggo13 Wrote:  Most of those chances in XIII-2 are what what most fans wanted to see put back in.

Sadly, I think this is where SquareEnix went way~ wrong. I think they either listened to the wrong people, or they took it wrongly. I know I seen quite a bit of criticism in FF13 because of the never ending linear walkways, but they took it a step further and added in a terrible MassEffect'ish choose-you-own-adventure system. Aside from that, there really wasn't anything addressed that I seen people ask for. I don't claim to be the majority, but sadly nothing I seen taken away from FF with FF13 was returned with FF13-2. Most everyone I know wanted an open world and better character design. Both of which weren't delivered.

For me personally, it's that lack of addressing those main issues that nearly made me not buy FF13-2.

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